Thank you Wes for posting them.

But what these and other supporters of the Decalogue fail to see, is that the Decalogue (as has been stated above) is only ten laws out of a far greater number of “moral” laws that along with “ceremonial” and “civil” laws constituted the entire Mosaic Code. There were quite literally dozens of laws of no less value and importance for obedient living. Yet these other statutes never seem to see the light of day and hardly receive a mention in the pulpit, eclipsed as they are by the inordinate reverence paid to the Ten! So it seems to me, that attempts on this forum to set the record straight and return the “ten commandments” back to their Old Covenant context is a worthy cause indeed.

Meanwhile, we should turn our attention to the New Testament where, interestingly enough, we find nine of the ten commandments cast into a new higher and broader spiritual context and set among gems of equal worth and importance.

“Paul said that if we wish to apply the law of Moses as pertaining to our righteousness before God, then we must apply all the Law and not just selected portions. The reason is because the Law of Moses contained a curse on the person who did not apply all the law.

This does not mean that the law of Moses has no moral codes to consider. Paul said that the Law could be used as a teaching instrument as long as we used it ‘lawfully,’ which means that we cannot use the law as an instrument of righteousness. We are not under the law of Moses, but under the law of Christ.” (Pastor Buddy Martin)

No one can have “God’s rest” (a reference to the future promise of eternal life) unless he KEEPS GOD’S LAWS (also called OBEDIENCE) that springs forth from living faith. It is actually “marked unbelief”, as you put it, to IGNORE God’s instructions for how to live. To do so is call UNBELIEF, the very thing the people died in the wilderness because of their refusal to obey God.

No one receives eternal life who does not meet God’s qualifications for repentance and belief on His Son. His qualifications are simple, Revelation 14:12, yet most choose the broad path anyway. The way is narrow because few choose to REALLY believe God enough to follow His instructions.

Point 14. News Flash! Heaven and earth HAVE NOT PASSED AWAY. As I said, FOUR of the holy days foreshadow prophetic events that HAVE NOT YET HAPPENED. So, the law has not” disappeared” or been “done away with” or “no longer applies”.

The Feast of Trumpets foreshadows the return of Christ; the Day of Atonement foreshadows the first resurrection; the Feast of Tabernacles foreshadows the 1,000 year reign of Christ; the Great Last Day foreshadows the time after the ‘rest of the dead” are raised to life and the second great harvest. ALL of these are YET TO COME. Therefore, the law has not been “done away” and “heaven and earth” have not passed away, a saying of Jesus that let’s us know the extent to which the law will stand.

Point 15. Conclusion: The Sabbath was from Creation, God having hallowed the seventh day at that time. The Sabbath was called a LAW BEFORE Sinai, was kept BEFORE Sinai, was written by the finger of God, was placed INSIDE the ark, was kept throughout Israel’s history, was kept by Jesus Christ, was kept by Paul, was taught expressly in Hebrews 3 and 4, was spoken of by Jesus as a future event, and WILL BE KEPT in the FUTURE kingdom on earth.

God’s command: “Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy…” Exodus 20:8-10

God is not kidding regarding His instructions. Mainstream religion makes up their own laws and rejects God’s at their own peril.

To persuade people to simply obey God is sometimes futile. It appears this is the case here. I hope anyone reading these comments will consider God’s simple instructions and ask themselves why they religiously keep sun god day instead.

The answer is found when harmonizing his writings. Paul taught that keeping the law FOR one’s own righteousness is impossible, “for all have sinned”. He also taught that “the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is NOT SUBJECT to the law of God, neither can it be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But YOU (believers) are NOT in the flesh, but in the spirit…” Romans 8:6-9

Also, “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we that are dead to sin live any longer in it. … Let not sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in the lusts therof. … For sin shall not have dominion over you: For you are not under the law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid!”

Being “under the law” is not NOT have repented from sin, but be facing the death penalty (permanent death in the lake of fire, aka, the second death). To be “under grace” is to have repented from breaking God’s law and to be forgiven. Paul makes a HUGE point that because we have been forgiven and are NOT facing the death penalty, should we continue breaking God’s law? His answer over and over is emphatically NO, meaning that we should be KEEPING THE LAW instead of BREAKING IT.

Paul stated clearly: “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good … For we know that the law is SPIRITUAL, but I am carnal, sold under sin.” Romans 7:13-14

Paul in NO WAY disannuls God’s law for how to live. Paul himself practiced keeping the Sabbath, as was his custom, Acts 17.

Point 10. “Where do you get your ideas from? Derek, being “under the law” is being under obligation to obey the law in all its requirements.”

Right. To be under the law is to be directly accountable to it. It is the standard by which all of mankind will be judged. Those who have repented from breaking it are forgiven (under grace). Those who have not repented are not forgiven and this law will condemn them permanently. So, to be “under the law” is to be facing the death penalty. To be under grace is to NOT be under the second death penalty, but because of repentance and forgiveness, be under God’s grace instead.

Those who think they are “under grace” while continuing to practice breaking the fourth command are given stark warnings by Jesus Christ in Revelation 2 to repent of “leaving your first love” or else have your candlestick REMOVED. The way to love God (first love) is to abide by His instructions for HOW to love Him, aka first four commandments.

Point 11. Just for the record, I am not a Seventh Day Adventist, which I view as a cult. Quite unlike the Seventh Day Adventists I seek to follow ALL of God’s instructions for how to live, to include keeping HIS holidays (as opposed to the worlds’) and abide by HIS food perimeters, and HIS cleanliness instructions, etc.

Point 12. You stated, “You are reading ‘the ten commandments’ into 1 John 2:3-4 which is what Adventists typically do because they cannot conceive of any other ‘law’ outside of the Decalogue.”
(Again, I am NOT an Adventist) Really? John himself a fews verses away specifies to which law he is referring. In context:

“And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments. He that says, ‘I know Him, but does not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him…Brethren, I write NO NEW commandment to you, but an OLD COMMANDMENT which you had from the BEGINNING. The OLD COMMANDMENT is the word which you have heard from the beginning.” I John 2:2-7

There was no “New Testament” for these early believers. They studied from the Hebrew scriptures on what was expected of them.

Jesus Christ spoke IN THE FUTURE of a time where he prayed that the flight of believers would not be in the winter or on a Sabbath day.

The Sabbath WILL BE KEPT by the whole world in the future kingdom under the rule of Jesus Christ because the government will be God’s laws, which are universal to mankind. Those who know Him, already obey them. Those who do not know Him, ignore them or even teach against them. Zechariah 14.

Where did Paul teach that God’s laws have been “abrogated”?

Where in ALL of scripture is the teaching that God’s seventh day Sabbath has been VOIDED OUT?

Answer: There is NO PLACE in all of scripture that teaches that the seventh day Sabbath has been made void, abrogated, annulled, disappeared. Paul did not teach that God’s laws that define sin have been VOIDED OUT.

I just did. Again, Exodus calls the seventh day that God hallowed at creation the SABBATH. So, the SABBATH was instituted AT CREATION as a “law”. We know this because God called it a LAW and COMMANDMENT *PRIOR* to Sinai. With these two FACTS in mind, we then look at Genesis 26:5:

“…Abraham .. kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Keeping in mind that the Sabbath was instituted AT CREATION and something GOD made a big deal about BEFORE Sinai, one can then KNOW the Sabbath was one of the COMMANDMENTS and LAWS that Abraham obeyed.

Verse and chapter? Exodus 20:8-10, Genesis 2:2-3, and Genesis 26:5

Point 6. Since the temporal priesthood and ordinances in conjunction with are obsolete, we can know that keeping the Sabbath now does NOT necessitate these temporal rituals. There is no more earthly physical temple, no more earthly human priests, and no more types of temporal sacrifices. Jesus Christ is the permanent High Priest, and is the permanent sacrifice. This is NO WAY disannuls the fourth command, just like it in no way disannuls the other commands.

Point 7. You stated, “Additionally you interpret Genesis by reading into it what you read in Exodus!!

Right. That is how scripture is “rightly divided” … by using principles of hermeneutics. Exodus calls the seventh day that was hallowed at creation the SABBATH. “Shabbat” simply means “ceasing”. So, there was a CEASING from labor AT CREATION, and God hallowed this seventh day. It is the SABBATH from the week of Creation. THAT is when the SABBATH came to be a law of God that He taught His people PRIOR TO SINAI.

Point 8. You stated, “Christ tells us that we cannot do anything without Him (Jn 15). You betray a legalistic theology which is not surprising since your focus is law and not the Spirit who is the source of our obedience.”

Is God “legalistic”? He has moral laws that if we practice breaking, we receive bad consequences. Those who practice murder, for instance, will NOT see the kingdom. Those who practice stealing, will NOT see the kingdom. Why? Because these have not repented from their sin, but are practicing ignoring God’s laws.

The Bible teaches that sin is breaking God’s law, I John 3:4. So, we have sin defined for us by God through His word. To repent from sin is to STOP breaking His law and START keeping it. Is that legalism? No, it’s called OBEDIENCE.

Faith without works isn’t faith at all. Living faith is proven by obedience to God. If a person REALLY believes God, he obeys Him. No one is given God’s spirit who does NOT obey Him. Acts 5:32.

Legalism would be keeping the law FOR our own righteousness, which is impossible because we’ve all broken the law in one point or another. What Jesus Christ did is allow God to forgive us these sins and not hold them to our account. But if we practice breaking His law He DOES hold them to our account.

Jesus Christ cannot repent for us or obey for us. WE are responsible to God to do this for ourselves. However, it is ear-tickling and popular to believe that Jesus Christ obeyed for us and that we are absolved of any further moral responsibility to God, when that idea could not be further from truth and teaching of scripture.

Where is this “ritualism” in Exodus 16, where God commanded His “law”, the seventh day Sabbath keeping, to be kept? The people were simply to NOT gather food (work) on the seventh day. There is no other ritual involved in “ceasing from labor”. The fourth command is practical and simple. Those who keep it align themselves with the Creator because it is the Creator that hallowed this day. NOWHERE in all of scripture has this day been UNhallowed.

When scripture is harmonized, we can see that the temporal practices of Israel are obsolete. Therefore, no animal sacrifice is necessary for any of God’s required Sabbaths, to include His holy days, which believers also keep in contrast to the worlds holidays that most practice in keeping with Babylonian mystery cult sun worship.

Point 3. You quoted me, “One has to really do some dangerous stretching to ignore or try to get around Exodus 20:8-10 …. We are to obey Him by following His instruction for how He wants it kept.”

That’s right. Exodus 20:8-10 is blatant instruction by God. To practice NOT WORKING on the seventh day is simple to follow. To NOT practice this tantamount to idolatry … because it means that a person does not acknowledge the Creator. Simple.

Point 4. You stated, “It may be clear to you but it is not to me. I am not persuaded by your generalisations and lack of scripture. You have failed to address my remarks in on Genesis and are simply reading into the verses what you want.”

I DID address your comments regarding the Sabbath in Genesis. Listen carefully: The fourth commandment that appears in Exodus 20:8-10 hearkens BACK TO CREATION and calls this day the SABBATH. So, we can KNOW it was the SABBATH that God instituted AT CREATION.

One more time: Exodus calls the day that God hallowed AT CREATION THE SABBATH. Therefore, the SABBATH was instituted AT CREATION.

Sabbath keeping was a “law” before Sinai, as I aptly pointed out. Anyone can read Exodus 16 and see plainly that God made a BIG DEAL about keeping His seventh day Sabbath and called it a “LAW” and “COMMANDMENT”.

These are PLAIN FACTS that are not up for question because they are THAT PLAIN.

Circumcision, like water baptism, were signs that identified God’s people. However, Acts 15 takes great pains to teach that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, and in John 1 we learn that John baptized with water, but Jesus came to baptize with God’s spirit. So, these physical signs, circumcision and water baptism, are not requirements for salvation. Romans 2:28-29 defines a true Jew as one who is circumcised of the heart, not flesh.

The seventh day Sabbath is a sign between God and His people (believers), and also a point blank command … something we are to remember to do. Neither baptism nor circumcision are listed in the ten commands, but the seventh day Sabbath keeping IS.

What laws are obsolete now? The temporal laws that required temporal high priests and temporal sacrifices. These are obsolete because we have a permanent high priest and a permanent sacrifice. The physical temple is not necessary anymore and neither are human high priests or sacrifices of bulls and goats. (Hebrews and Ephesiains) What Jesus Christ did was remove the ENMITY between Jew and Gentile, meaning that he made the Levitical ordinances obsolete. Gentiles were not allowed into the inner court of the physical temple. Jesus Christ did away with the distinguishing of Jew and Gentile, making the two one.

The Bible does not teach that God’s laws for how to live have been “done away” as many antinomians wish to proclaim. The Bible teaches that the temporal sacrificial system under human priests was made obsolete by the once for all sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Now we have a PERMANENT priest, a PERMANENT sacrifice, and PERMANENT promises … which is the only difference between the covenant of old that is “ready to vanish” as Hebrews 8 teaches.

If God’s laws are “done away” then there is nothing left to define sin. Murder is okay now … adultery is fine … stealing, not a problem. But we know that these are called sin because I John 3:4 gives us the definition of sin; breaking God’s law … which is WHY the fourth commandment is vital to salvation … because the practice of breaking it is sin … and the wages of sin is death (permanent death via the lake of fire).

The consequence of Sabbath breaking has not changed. Death was the penalty. It still is. The punishment in ancient Israel was physical death. The only difference now is that the punishment for not repenting from sin is permanent death in the lake of fire, which is also called the second death because it is final.

Matthew 5:17-19 quoted.

Of course. Jesus taught obedience to the Law. He was, after all, teaching the Jews who were still under the Law. Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles; He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. His gospel was to the Circumcision and so was the gospel of the rest of the Disciples with the exception of Paul whose gospel was to the Gentiles. That’s another reason why you will not see Paul commanding the Sabbath.

Derek, I am not prepared to continue this debate with you. Its up to you to agree or disagree as you choose. God bless you.

Christ always spoke in parables in public. “Heaven and earth” applies to the era of the nation of Israel whose world came to an end in AD70. Christ said “until” twice in this passage. And the “until” happened the “heaven and the earth passed away”! But what did He mean? Christ was using symbolism here which was quite a common thing for prophets to do in His day; and He was also a prophet remember. The Bible is full of “heavens” and the “earth” inferences. The context of these shows that it is a reference to leaders and the people. Joseph, for example, spoke of his parents as the “sun and the moon” and his brothers as the “stars”. Peter talked of the heavens and the earth of old which passed away when referring to the Great Flood. This is common in prophetic language throughout the Old Testament and even in the New Testament. I will send you the memo seeing as it is 1942 years too late in your case